Sunday, January 10, 2016

The futility of trying to explain Muslim dangers to liberals


12 comments:

Anonymous said...

Tarek Fatah is actually a Muslim himself. He states the danger is Islamism, not Islam. Otherwise it is the radicals within Islam who are a danger not the moderates. He is a moderate secular Muslim who believes Muslims have a duty to integrate into Canadian society, not try and impose their religious values. Otherwise we need more Muslims like him and fewer like Anjem Choudary (A firebrand British radical imam who wants to bring Sharia to the West).

JR said...

Yes, Tarek is one of the very few Muslims actively opposing Islamism. While I agree that Islamism is the problem, Islamism is (not surprisingly) rooted in Islam and their numbers (Islamists) are huge. Huge chunks of the populations of entire nations like Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Yemen, Sudan, Ethiopia, etc ...(adding up to 100's of millions of Muslims) subscribe to Sharia and therefore to Islamism. The danger to us is that many of them have and are continuing to emigrate to the West, and their fertility rates are much, much higher than native Westerners. Long term, this is not good.

In the USA, Zuhdi Jasser is one of the too few stand-up pro-Western Muslims.

Anonymous said...

Actually I've found countries closest to the Middle East are the worst for Islamic Fundamentalism. In Sub-Saharan Africa, you do have problems in Nigeria, Somalia, and Mali, but in many like Senegal, Sierra Leone, and Gambia there are relatively few. Also in many of those countries people still combine pre-Islamic beliefs too. In Europe, Albania and Bosnia are quite secular and you would barely notice it was a Muslim country. Few women wear the hijab (in fact on a hot summer's day shorts and tanks tops are more common) and alcohol is widely consumed and freely available. Otherwise they are Muslim but European. Off course in Western Europe it is a bit different but nonetheless the more educated and affluent tend to do better than others. In Central Asia you have some issues, but asides from Afghanistan Islamic fundamentalism didn't become the problem many feared it would be when the USSR fell. In Southeast Asia, radical Islam is a problem in the Philippines and parts of Indonesia, but in Singapore it's largely a non-issue and in Malaysia despite being quite conservative, there aren't a lot of fundamentalists. Past problems there were more economic as the Chinese minority (who are not Muslim) tend to be wealthier than the Malays (who are).

So my point is Islam is practiced by 1.5 billion people and there is great diversity just as you see with Christianity. The Bible has many scripts that people would find abhorrent but most simply take those as being representative of the time, not the literal word. Also in some of the countries where it is bad, it could be partly economic too as in Philippines, Nigeria, Chechnya, Uighurs in China etc. are all generally poorer than most of the population and in any country when a certain group is poorer than the rest you tend to get political tensions.

Anonymous said...

old white guy says..........all moderate muslims must follow the Koran. I never hear anyone ask the so called moderate muslims what they will do about the verses that say they cannot take non-believers as friends and that we infidels have to be killed if we do not submit. The assertion that the Bible has such offensive verses is foolish. The history between God and the ancient Hebrews does not apply to Christianity. The New Testament does not tell anyone that they are required to kill those who do not follow Christ. The Koran tells muslims that they have to kill non-believers who will not submit. That is a fact, not fiction.

Anonymous said...

The Dennis R Timbrell public recreation facility implementing gender segregation, University Regina foot baths for Muslims, York University gender segregation in classrooms to appease Muslims, Valley Park Middle school Muslim prayer times, Webber Academy special prayer times for Muslims students, prayer rooms for Muslims in every Canadian major airports, special accommodation for Canadian Muslim federal civil servants to have Ramadan off and prayer times in government buildings, sharia compliant media and blogs (including this one) who lack fortitude to publish “the cartoon”, halal menus being implemented in public schools all across the country, the war on Christmas perpetuated by Islam (happy holidays), the preaching of hate in every Canadian mosque, a concern about female genital mutilation to the point that the Ontario Human Rights commission and the Canadian Pediatric Association has an entire web page on their website devoted to it explaining the dangers and how it violates women’s rights, legalized polygamy for Muslims men and the list goes on and on and on and on and on……….

Too many Canadians have their head in the sand (including you JR) while sharia law slowly but surely enters society. According to Stats Canada the Muslim population has more than doubled since 9/11, with the most growth coming in the last 8 years when all the above mentioned sharia incidents accoutred. Ironically the last 8 years when the Muslims population has doubled and when all the informal Sharia law incidents occurred right under the watch of our inglorious commander and chief and Prime Minister Stephen Harper. Harper sold this country out to the politically correct and failed as a social conservative. The threat of terrorism and radical Islam has been the highest in Canadian history and it was allowed to grow right under the watch of Stephen Harper the failed conservative. The Islamic terrorists’ attacks that killed two armed forces members prompted NO action from Stephen Harper except a direct reference to “radical Islam” and “Jihad”, which commend him for. But otherwise NO action whatsoever but the tough talk and a continuance of the status quo of open immigration from Muslim countries, political correctness and special accommodation. And now we have a minister of defence (Minister “bad ass”) who claims that ISIS is suddenly not a threat to Canada. So either the previous Harper government done an excellent job cleaning ISIS house with his little 6 fighter jets or Minister bad ass is delusional or riding n the coattails of the success of Harpers little 6 fighter jets in Iraq.

So JR do yourself a huge favour and stop pretending to be a conservative and stop defending your buddy Stephen Harper and stop promoting Harper as being the greatest Prime Minister in History. Harper was a weak conservative leader, the weakest ever in Canadian history, who allowed the propagation of Islam in Canadian society to the point of no return. Notice that I didn’t say “radical” in front of “Islam” in the last sentence? Wanna know why? It’s because the examples I gave in the first paragraph are not necessarily part of “radical Islam”. They are in fact an everyday normal part of moderate Islam, but they are also sharia compliant nevertheless.

fhl said...

Pretty tough talk from anonymous 3:15 am pst
What is your problem afraid to put your name.
You have a simplistic solution I sure would like to think your solution would work.
Being PM ofCanada is unfortunately a more complicated job.
FormerPM Harper was the best P M of Canada. He made Canada number one on world stage

Dollops said...

Yes, some Muslims do not (outwardly) follow the Koran's explicit instructions to emulate Muhammad, especially in violent jihad. The question begged is one of two: “why do they continue to self-identify as Islamic;” or “why won't they reform Islam to remove violent jihad and other barbaric practices so that their lifestyle is not apostasy?"

Anonymous said...

Old White guy - The violent phrase about killing the enemy is defensive and in fact calls one to retreat if they enemy surrenders.

Anonymous @ 9:02 - Canada's Muslim population is around 3% and even at its current growth rate it would take more than a century to become a majority. Besides Canada has a long history of large waves of immigrants only to subside. The fears of the Irish in the 1800s bringing Canada under the Pope, the Ukrainians being Bolsheviks and bring communism at the turn of the century, Italians bringing the mafia and violent crime in the 50s, and Chinese being an Asian invasion were all untrue and each of those groups have by and large turned out to be good citizens who have contributed to our country. Most Muslims immigrate to Canada for better economic opportunities, not to spread Islam.

fhl - Being PM is a tough job but it also means standing firm for our values. And tolerance and diversity are just as much part of the fundamental fabric that defines us as Canadians as freedom is. Surrendering our tolerance is giving into radical Islam, not discriminating against Muslims. Besides Canada is too small to really have much impact globally so it is more about the image we want to present to the world. Justin Trudeau's values (note I did not vote for him nor support him) is supported by far more Canadians than Stephen Harper's. I know many Canadians who were embarrassed about Harper and stopped wearing maple leafs when travelling abroad (I never wear one and it really doesn't make much difference anyways) but now are wearing them again with Trudeau back in. Otherwise it's about how we want the world to see us and most Canadians want people to see us as a compassionate, tolerant, and caring nation. More importantly why can't we aim high and try to strive for what we stand for. Muslims are human beings too and no human being asides from sociopaths is born naturally violent. Yes we have to be realistic but that doesn't mean we should surrender our values.

Dollops - One could argue anyone who doesn't believe the earth is 6,000 years old or opposes burning at the stakes is not a true Christian. Being a Christian means believing in one God and Jesus Christ is the saviour and that is it. Being a Muslim means following the five pillars which don't mention anything about killing infidels. If one follows the five pillars they are a true Muslim.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous@2:36 -- and which of Justin Trudeau's do you think Canadians support? As far as I can tell,.the new Liberal government is mostly about favouring special interest groups, making false promises, spending money recklessly and ultimately playing into the globalists agenda. He has already declared that we are the first post nationalist country. What values of Harpers for you think Canadians disagreed with? Balanced budgets? Careful balancing of environment and the economy? Strong positions against extremists?
I am afraid your friends who are so proud again to be Canadian now that the effete, know-nothing aristocratic is in charge are simply ignorant about the Liberal agenda and Trudeau's incompetence. They clearly allowed themselves to be taken in by the false narrative on the left. The chickens will be coming home to roost. Our economy and our country are not in good hands.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @ 6:54 - Actually I probably disagree with more of Trudeau's plans than agree, I was referring to Canadians as a whole. Whether one likes it or not, Canada is a progressive centre-left country and as such his vision is more in line with the majority of Canadians than Harper. That doesn't mean one can believe differently and indeed after 4 years maybe public opinion will change, although Canada has been a left wing country for quite some time and it's pretty ingrained in our DNA. In fact for many it's not socially acceptable to be on the right in Canada. Although only centre-right, I got say Canada is probably the most difficult country in the world to not be on the left. That being said I think his revised (not original) refugee plan is reasonable, I support legalizing marijuana, first ministers conferences again. At the same time I don't support tax hikes on the rich, large deficits, or changing the electoral system without a referendum.

Anonymous said...

old white guy says........... anon knows vey little about islam.

Dollops said...

Oh, come on Anon @2:36 11th. "There is one god, Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet." Islam is what Muhammad said and demonstrated it to be. Do you think you will ever find a Muslim who repudiates their prophet's words or actions?