Saturday, January 10, 2015

Western leaders still in denial about Islam

Not long after the perps of the Islamist terror attacks in Paris were put down, French President Francois Hollande delivered this "reassuring" bit of whitewash: ("... these fantatics had nothing to do with the Muslim religion")

And, we know how Obama thinks (".... ISIL is not Islamic ..."):

So, who should we believe? The above two lefties and their numerous ilk, or Muslim President Al-Sisi of Egypt ("...we must revolutionize our religion ...":


Anonymous said...

There are 1.6 billion Muslims so we would be all dead by now if even half were terrorist. Yes extremism within the religion is a problem, but Islam is not an inherently evil religion. As someone who has studied it, it has some elements that some out of place for today's world, but so does Christianity. As someone who lives in Toronto and knows many Muslims, I can tell you not all of them are like this. Yes we need to be vigilant and certainly political correctness should not prevent us from attacking backward views or likewise saying certain practices are not welcome in our country. But we also have to realize many Muslims have been strong contributors to our country and trying to marginalize them will not help and it is not who we are as Canadians. Perhaps Conservatives who like to attack Muslims should maybe meet some first before going on about how bad Islam is. In Europe, far right parties that attack Islam the most are interestingly enough strongest in rural areas and parts of cities that have very few Muslims, otherwise people who have never met one thus buy the stereotypes. In large cosmopolitan cities, they do poorly not just because there is a larger Muslim population, but even amongst the non-Muslim population since many know Muslims and realize the stereotypes are untrue.

JR said...

"There are 1.6 billion Muslims so we would be all dead by now if even half were terrorist."

No. They would all be dead by now.

... it [Islam] has some elements that some out of place for today's world, but so does Christianity. "

Really? Written like a typical lib/left cultural and moral relativist. How many wars and conflicts going on around the world are being waged by Christians in the name of Christianity? None. How many terror attacks, ruthless murders of women and children?

So, don't be ridiculous. Of course not all Muslims are terrorists. But we are talking about a very specific and very obvious problem - radical, extremist Islam. And from world-wide polling it is estimated that upwards of 15% of those 1.6 billion Muslims are sympathetic to the goals and methods of those extremist Muslims who wage war and commit atrocities in the name of Islam. That's around 250 million potential jihadis.

Muslims who deny the basic facts and obfuscates like you do are part of the problem. They need to get on board with truly moderate Muslims like President Al-Asisi.

Anonymous said...

Christians may not be waging war and attacking others today, but if you look at Christianity's history, it's pretty bloody so my argument is much of this has to do with Muslim countries on balance are more dictatorial, less free, and poorer. Never mind sectarian violence has occurred in the not too distant past, think Northern Ireland and no one would say Catholics are terrorist or a violent religion even though the IRA was a Catholic organization.

I agree radical extremist Islam is a problem, but you cannot equate all Muslims with that and if you ultimately want to defeat the extremist you need to separate the moderates from them, not discriminate which will only push those on the fence in that direction. Canada is 3% Muslim while Britain is 4% Muslim yet Canada has had significantly fewer problems with radical Islam than Britain has and I would argue much of that is we are a society that embraces diversity and welcomes those of different cultures whereas in Britain those who are not native Brits are still seen as others, even if most Brits aren't racist per se. Multiculturalism in Canada is not perfect, but when you consider integration of immigrants in Canada has been better than pretty much every other industrialized country, that suggests our policy is working. Off course much of that has a lot to do with our history since unlike in Europe, every Canadian save the First Nations are descendants of immigrants as well as having two languages and cultures founding the country, we had to work together if we wanted to keep the country together. As for 15% being sympathetic, while I don't doubt that statistic, I would be interested in seeing the country by country breakdown as I suspect its probably over 50% in some countries while in others probably under 5% so if I saw the country by country breakdown that might provide some clues into where the problems are.

I've only visited one predominately Muslim country in my life, but the one I visited Turkey is a secular one and has very little in the way of militant Islam as opposed to Saudi Arabia so perhaps it could be held up as a model of how Muslim countries should operate.

Alain said...

In response to the non sense by anon actions always speak louder than words. Those actions of killing, raping and violence are carried out daily across the globe by the totalitarian, political and militant ideology called Islam and no other. It is clear that this ideology is incompatible with freedom in all forms; those very freedoms upon which Western democracy is based.

Anonymous said...

Alain - Islamic Fundamentalism is incompatible with Western values, but moderate Islam is not. As I have mentioned the Muslim world is quite diverse and varied. As pointed out above, I would hardly describe a country like Turkey as being backwards and regressive. If you are referring to Saudi Arabia and the way Islam is practiced there I agree, but what about those from those countries who want to come to Canada to escape such an oppressive regime. In the Lower Mainland much of the Iranian community is quite secular and came to Canada because they despise the extreme ideology their former country espouses.

JR said...

Alain, You're probably right. As much as it's encouraging to hear Pres Al-Sisi lecturing the Imams on the need for reforms to Islam, the likelihood of reform any time soon is remote; and Al-Sisi will have to watch his back if he's to avoid Sadat's fate.

Anon:"... if you look at Christianity's history, it's pretty bloody ..."

Not so much, but whatever it may have been, compared to Islam's history of bloody conquest, Christianity's record was mild indeed.

But that's history and Christianity reformed long ago. What is significant is that radical Islam's violent ideology continues to wreak bloody havoc and terror across the globe to this day. And soft-headed liberal Westerners downplaying or denying the threat of radical Islam only encourages more of same.

"I would be interested in seeing the country by country breakdown"

Try Google. The info is there.

"... I visited Turkey is a secular one and has very little in the way of militant Islam ..."

I don't know when you visited but Turkey has gone seriously downhill in recent years under its current Islamist President Erdogan who's an open supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Anonymous said...

As for Christianity's bloody history, burning at the stakes and the Spanish inquisition were right up their in brutality, but thankfully are a thing of the past.

As for Turkey, I was in Istanbul two years ago, which I will admit is more cosmopolitan than most of Turkey. Also in Turkey you have a choice between the AKP which is pro free market, but pro-Islamic vs. CHP which is statist but secular so if you are pro free market but secular it's a tough call. I agree Erdogan is taking Turkey in the wrong direction, I was more referring to Turkey up to this point as Ataruk who founded the modern republic made secularism one of his founding principles. You also have countries like Guinea, Senegal, and Gambia which while quite conservative and traditional, Muslims and Christians get along quite well, while in Europe you have Bosnia and Albania which are mostly Muslim yet culturally are European in all other aspects so I think cultural background matters. Otherwise Sub-Saharan African Muslim countries in most cases (Northern Nigeria, Mauritania, Sudan, and Somalia buck this trend) are largely still African culturally while the Balkans whether Christian or Muslim are still culturally European.

Jeffrey Simpson in the Globe once pointed out and as someone who has travelled to those countries would agree, Germany has the fewest problems although still issues as most Muslims are Turkish. France which is predominately North African falls in the middle, while Britain which is mostly Pakistani is the worse despite the fact it has the smallest Muslim population of the three countries listed.