Sunday, May 6, 2012

Climate change: "The lost debate"

Lawrence Solomon:
"... I concluded that Al Gore et al. had decisively lost the global-warming debate.

"Global temperatures had stopped climbing, hurricanes hadn’t materialized in abnormal numbers, the Arctic ice had largely recovered while the Antarctic ice had steadily grown, polar bear populations were on the increase, and on and on — in effect, every major global-warming scare had been debunked.

"... While most members of the general public by now realize that global-warming was overhyped, two groups lag behind: the large number who don’t follow the issue closely and the small number of true believers who do, but selectively and with outrage.

"... There is not a scrap of compelling evidence that points to man-made global warming representing a danger for society. The only scary “evidence” that exists, in fact, is based on computer models, none of which have been proven to work and all of which reflect the biases of the people loading in the data."
Maybe, but climate alarmism still has huge momentum in the Consensus Media and at every level of government.  The BC government web-pages are saturated with policy and regulatory references to the need for action on climate change.  Our carbon taxes have been incrementally doubled since 2009.     There may be dwindling numbers of noisy, deluded protestors but they are still plentiful and until politicians and government bureaucracies come to their senses huge amounts of money will be wasted on "climate action"  (or "LiveSmart BC", as our government likes to label it.)


Zorpheous said...

"Arctic ice had largely recovered" err, sorry that is categorically wrong. The volume of Arctic Sea Ice has been steady declining and has shown no recovery.

Next, Climate model have not predicted more hurricanes, they predict the exact opposite. They all predict the number of severe hurricanes will increase (category 7 and greater)

Anonymous said...

Arctic Ice has MORE than recovered. Check your work, the data is widely available. Arctic Sea ice is currently with 2 standard deviations of the total historical 'normal'

Saffir Simpson Hurricane scale ends at Category 5. There is no '7'

Once again - Check your work.

Alex said...

For reference on ice data:

When AGW finally blows over. I'm going to want my money back. Start saving Zorph. You owe me.

johndoe124 said...

Zorpheous, even if what you say is true, you need to show that it is anomalous.

Governments don't care if AGW exists or not. Their only concern is control. Without an unbiased media there's virtually no way of holding them accountable.

dmorris said...

Governments are NOT about "to come to their senses".

Many businessmen who back either the Liberals or the Conservatives are heavily invested into "green" technologies,and they just LOVE those delicious subsidies.

And governments DO love those carbon taxes!

JR said...

dmorris, I agree. Politicians and govts will change course only in the face of clear, strong public backlash (votes) against the "climate action" baloney. We're a long way from that.

Anonymous said...

Wow, there's still some of you deniers out there?

Zorpheous said...

Alex, I had a look at your graphs, and they clearly marked as Sea Ice Area, not Sea Ice VOLUME. And even given that it is Sea Ia Area, it clearly shows that even the total global area of sea ice is declining, not increase, not recovering, not even stable.

Not if you would actually care to examine what is happening to Sea Ice Volumes look at this link.

The graphs and data are properly sourced to the original research.

Just to point out a slightly dishonest technique that WhatsUpWithThat's graph, he stretch out the X-axis length to make the slope of the "Trend" lines less obvious. In the graphs I have provided for you the x-axis is a more reasonable scale and the "Trend" line included.

Zorpheous said...

Oh, and just for the record, I don't think we can stop the Climate Change from dumping CO2 into the atmosphere. I believe we are past the tipping point where the positive forcings will out weigh and changes we make to our CO2 out put. At this point and for the future we are going to be in damage control mode.

bertie said...

Zorpheous you are so full of shit your eyes are brown..You have been brain washed or you are Liberal.And believe me being brain washed and Liberal are the same.So you are in dire straights Zorph.You can believe anything you want Zorph,you can buy carbon credits Zorph,you can bow down to gore/suzuki gorph,but do not,I SAY,do not try to BS a Conservative.BUT,you can go to the Lib?NDPQ blogs and they will kiss your ass and call you brilliant...Here in Conservative land you are just an Idiot..You see Zorph we Deny lies Zorph..That is why we are called deniers Zorph..One day soon you will wake up and say to yourself,I am such a fool,GW is a scam and my hero Gore and my bug doctor Suzuki are scammers.But you will still keep replying on Tory blogs about us deniers and how our co2 is getting into the atmosphere and we are past the tipping point etc etc..Well Zorph you and your ilk have passed the tipping point,it is time to sign yourselves into the looney bin.

Zorpheous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Zorpheous said...

Well Bertie, I suggest you examine the graphs that Alex provided at

They unfortunately display quite clear that Global Sea Ice Area is declining.

I followed with analysis of a better metric, Global Sea Ice Volume which shows an even more drastic decline in Sea Ice.

If you are going to say that these two sources are wrong then you need to actually support that claim, your ad hominem attacks count for nothing as scientific countenance.

Alex said...

good to see you actually followed the link zorph.
I've found my way to your source many times. Nice to have google on your side. Google doesn't make reality though & it's a damn good thing alarmists don't either.

l never actually disputed your assertion about the arctic. the link shows that it has. it also shows a color coded ice volume chart I think. never mind the growing antarctic ice.

We could argue about how many angels can dance on pinheaded eco-nut. we don't know what climate will do. we've been lucky that nature give us a sudden warm period as happened in the past. lucky we had plateau or we would all be in chains for giving gaia a fever . the important thing is that co2 is not correlated to temperature. that is your driver that is not driving. it doesn't need a tax or socialism .

Zorpheous said...

Google has nothing to do with Alex, those charts are sourced to NOAA data.

Your initial claim is that Artic Ice had largely recovered, which is complete and utter nonsense.

Anonymous said...

Now that we know that arctic ice has fully recovered, it begs the question; Are there still climate alarmists out there?

Anonymous said...

sure there are climate alarmists or as I like to call them, frauds, who continue to use computers producing co2 (no amount is insignificant) eventhough we are "past the tipping point"

Zorpheous said...

Whoa, Anonymous, your computer has a tailpipe and runs on fossil fuels. Time to upgrade that bad boy.

As for your comments, your first is 100% incorrect. Your second is a pointless talking point.

Alex said...

You are making stuff up friend. Check above. I made no such claim. I was starting to respect you there for a second.

The reason I brought up Google was to explain why I end up at skeptical scince blog so often is because good sends me there. Dig a little bit and you'll see its part of their policy. I have to seek out the real skiptical blogs that Google purposely misses in searches. This has nothing to do with science and everyhting to do with ending debate.

Zorpheous said...

My apologies Alex, I accidental got you thought you were the blog owner here. I don't why I thought that.

As for your Google point, can you provide a link to this policy?

Alex said...

You are having an argument with many people. Understandable.

I will let google provide the links if you are so inclined.

Google: skeptical censorship

Then google: google global warming

They on board and part of the problem